depressing news day, we wanted to share a little of the fun from the white house president biden and first lady jill biden hosting the annual white house easter egg roll with a guest appearance from more than one easter bunny, including on the right, the iconic, the spectacled marvel of a rabbit on the truman balcony the event had it all, frankly, live music, colored eggs, and lots and lots and lots of kids and, by the way, it's still happening. not expected to wrap up until about 30,000 people have come through there. yes, there are timed tickets it will end likely around 7:00 p.m and that's going to do it for us this hour. we are expecting officials to provide an update on the mass shooting in louisville any moment now there you see the podium we'll have that for you live when it happens. join us for "chris jansing reports" weekdays 1:00 to 3:00 eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now ♪

good to be with you, i'm katy tur, as chris jansing just said, we are waiting for police in louisville, kentucky, to update us on the latest mass shooting four dead and nine are wounded at the old national bank sources tell nbc news the shooter is believed to be a current or former employee of the bank it was unclear how the shooter died the question is what does or does not happen now? kentucky is a split state. it has two republican senators, rand paul and mitch mcconnell, who sent tweets offering a version of thoughts and prayers. while its governor is a democrat, a democrat who is now not just professionally affected by gun violence, but personally. here is governor andy beshear in front of the bank this morning. >> this is awful i have a very close friend that didn't make it today

and i have another close friend who didn't either, and one who's at the hospital who i hope is going to make it through >> joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken derilanian. there's a lot to talk about as we await this news conference. first i want to get to the gun laws in kentucky, and what you can tell us about how you can get a gun there and what can lead to what we talked about today. >> they're about as loose as it can be, no red flag law, if you're legally authorized under federal law to purchase a weapon, and you're over 21, you can carry a concealed weapon without a license or a permit, and recently, just a few weeks ago the republican-controlled legislature passed a second amendment protection style law we're seeing this around red states that makes it a crime for state officials to cooperate with federal officials in enforcing certain federal gun

laws and the governor who you just saw there did not sign that law. it became law without his signature, but he didn't veto it either, probably reflecting the complexities of his state and the popularity of gun rights in that state but look, it's a red state and it's sort of anything goes in terms of gun purchases and it's got a very high rate of gun violence. >> what can you tell us about what we know so far? this news conference is expected to start in a few moments. what do we know so far about the victims and anything at all about the shooter? >> so all we know is what they have told us the shooter is a current or former employee of the bank and even before the police said that publicly, we were told by law enforcement sources that they were investigating this as workplace violence, and they believed that the shooter was a currently or former employee with some kind of mental health issue. that's all we were told. about the victims we know next to nothing, except that four

people died inside the bank, and then eight others were injured, including two police officers, who were shot at as they responded, and the police responded very very quickly in this case. they say that the first calls about gunshots came in at 8:30 a.m., they arrived within minutes. they were met with a hail of gunfire. they fired back. again, two police officers were shot one was critically wounded both were taken to the hospital. one was in surgery and then they're not sure whether their bullets killed the shooter or whether the shooter took his own life. but the situation ended quickly from their point of view, and nonetheless, four people inside that building were killed, and again, they haven't told us what kind of weapon was used but there are witness accounts to various local media that talk about people seeing the shooter brandishing a long gun, an assault style rifle, which could explain why he was able to shoot so rapidly, and kill so many people in a short time. >> and the governor says he knew

two of the victims personally, and that i believe another one was in surgery and just to repeat what you said at the top here, there are no legally mandated state waiting periods or background checks in kentucky in 2020, it had the 13th highest gun death rate in the country. and supplied crime guns to other states at the 8th highest rate that's according to giffords, and again, as ken said, kentucky does not have a red flag law if there were any warning signs about this, you couldn't take this person's gun. we are about a minute away from this press conference, and again, we're going to go in there live once it does begin. we're hoping to get more details about the shooter, what kind of gun the person was carrying. what we know so far about the victims, and what we know potentially about a motive, not that a motive matters in these cases any longer, considering when you've got a gun, it doesn't really matter what your motive is, you can kill people regardless

i want to bring in former fbi special agent and nbc news national security analyst clint watts to the conversation. clint, you know, i'm struggling with these sort of stories because i just frankly don't know what to ask you that i haven't asked 100 times before >> same story, different day, always a terrible story, and look, you brought up all of those things with ken in terms of just basic gun laws, why we can't do background checks, training, registration, and licensing, and then things like insurance. i mean, we would let someone -- we wouldn't let someone have a car or a drive, but we'll let them have a deadly assault weapon that would be used in the military for combat without any of these things. so all of those seem like common sense. the vast majority of the public supports one or many of those provisions in terms of the weapons. the other part is the frequency of these events. the other part is the mass

casualty events appeal to a certain part of the extreme part of our world where we saw this incident happen in nashville it's only a couple of weeks later that we see something in louisville this happens at such a high frequency now and particularly over the last decade, we have to look at things likes mental health, you don't see this in other countries around the world. you don't see this in europe yes, they may have an attack but you don't see four or five or six people dkilled, sometimes up to a dozen killed because of the weapons. that's the one thing that distinguishes us from the rest of societies around the world. >> i can tell you from personal experience, having come back overseas, one of the questions we get asked is what is going on with guns and why is it allowed, why is it okay for so many people to die? we're going to talk about this later in the show when we talk about what's going on down in tennessee, and what's happening with the expulsion of a couple of those lawmakers down there. i just want to just remind

everybody about how guns are the leading cause of death for children in this country right now. guns are the leading cause of at the time -- cause of death it's not cars. it's not cancer. bringing down the overall life expectancy one in 25 american kindergartners will not make it to their 40th birthday that's on the other story about guns and kids we're going to do later in this hour we're talking about a mass shooting that happened this morning where it appears multiple adults, we don't have the details yet, but multiple adults appear to be the victim of this latest mass shooting we have a reporter who's there on the scene for us. let's bring in nbc news correspondent morgan chesky. i might have to cut you off for the news conference but what can you tell us about what you have been able to learn today >> reporter: we are in the emergency operations center in the louisville, anticipating this press conference where we hope to hear from the governor,

from the mayor of louisville fr, from doctors who treated some of the shooting victims i can tell you right now, there is critical insight we hope to learn here this is expected to start momentarily. as of right now, that one of two police officers who was injured this morning we're told is in critical condition following emergency surgery as a result of taking gunfire from this armed gunman that authorities say was either a current or former employee of old national bank when he entered this morning around 8:30 a.m. and opened fire another officer who was struck is also being treated at a nearby hospital as well, but we still don't know a motive. we still don't know how this individual was able to obtain this gun that was described as a long rifle of sorts by witnesses, whose harrowing accounts are terrifying. that's what we're hoping to learn from investigators whenever they take to this podium here in just a few seconds, but i can tell you, there's still a wide perimeter

around old national bank where investigators are continuing to gather evidence here we do not know a potential motive at this time. i can tell you that that is going to be one of the key questions going forward here authorities were kick this morning to say that the community is not under any ongoing threat this was a lone individual who acted by himself and was neutralized at the scene looks like that press conference is starting now. >> this is lapd chief, jacqueline lynn via l. >> officers were on the scene in three minutes. the suspect shot at officers we then returned fire and stopped that threat. the suspect is deceased. this is the only time that i will mention the suspect name in this case. the suspect has been identified as conner sturgeon

white male, 23 years of age, who was employed at old national bank his weapon of choice was a rifle. we have five total deceased, which includes him but i want to acknowledge with heartfelt condolences, prayers to the family of those who lost their life today tommy elliot, 63 years of age. jim tutt, 64 years of age. josh barrett, 40 years of age. and juliana farmer, 57 we have a total of nine victims who were treated and are being treated at university of louisville hospital. three which are in critical condition including our officer. three who are listed in

non-critical condition, and three who have been treated and released the two officers who were struck in exchange of gunfire, one of the officers, he was grazed to the left side, and the other officer suffered minor injuries to the elbow i just want to let everyone know that the officer who is in critical condition today, officer nicholas wilt, 26 years of age, just graduated from the police academy on march 31st i just swore him in, and his family was there to witness his journey to become a police officer. he was struck in the head, engaged in this incident nick has come out of brain surgery, and is in critical but stable condition as we speak i've been down there with the

family and given my love and support. been with all of the families today to show our love and support for them, and anything else they need from lmpd, we will provide that. the next few days are important and very critical for nicholas's recovery this will be a long, complex investigation involving local, state and our federal partners i'd be remiss if i did not acknowledge our federal partners who have just been just outstanding, our local partners, atf, fbi, i thank you. our local partners, universal local police, ems, emergency management services, thank you thank you for everything and for my lmpd officers who took it upon themselves to not wait to assess everything, but just went in to stop the threat so that more lives would not be

lost, thank you. thank you for showing up even when sometimes you felt like you are not appreciated, but i asked my officers when i addressed them today, if we don't do it, who will, and so they are very committed and their resiliency showed today, and their professionalism showed today. i want to thank the gorch governor i want to thank the mayor who has been with us every step of the way through this trying and critical time. but i want to encourage the public, if you have any additional information, please call 574-lmpd and assist us. this should not continue to happen evil should not try to prevail and take over our city, and we let it happen, so i'm encouraging that we be united and continue to do the good work, and lmpd will continue to keep this community and this

city safe. thank you very much, chief today is a day that's heartbreaking for our city, for all of us, and especially for the people who were in that office at old national bank and their loved ones we just heard the chief give the names of the people who lost their lives in this mass shooting this morning. one of them was tommy elliot, a very good friend of mine, of the governor's through tommy's family to the families of jim tutt, josh barick, juliana farmer, rachel and i join you and families across our entire city and

beyond in grieving the shocking and painful loss of your lives the chief, the governor, myself, we visited in a hospital this morning with several of their families to offer them our support and our love during this unthinkable day. we will continue to offer our support and love and anything else we can provide to help them we were also there along with several of my colleagues from metro counsel to thank and support the officers of lmpd for their heroic work today and every day. and say thank you to the new graduating class who was there to support their colleague, officer will as he continues to fight for his life let's be clear about what this

was. this was an evil act of targeted violence and to add to that tragedy, a few blocks away shortly after this happened, another man lost his life and a woman was shot in a completely different act of targeted violence. the two incidents appear to be entirely unrelated, but they both took lives. they both leave people scarred, grieving, and angry. i share all of those feelings myself right now this is really difficult for all of us across the entire city to process and accept i ask that we respect the needs of the families and loved ones of the people whose lives were lost today and the people whose lives will never be the same

i'm a survivor of a workplace shooting to the people who survived, whether you were physically hurt or not, i know that you're hurting too. we are here for you as well. to the survivors and the families, our entire city is here to wrap our arms around you. we've set up a family assistance center through the red cross to provide support and services to those families today and in the coming days, weeks, and months ahead that we know will be challenging. to provide you with whatever you need to deal with the trauma of this moment, the same applies to our police officers and first responders our city is here for everyone impacted we are a strong city, and we

will be here for support as the chief mentioned our lmpd officers went into that building knowing that they were risking their lives to save other lives, and that's exactly what they did. they exchanged gunfire with the sh shooter. to officer wilt and his family, we will continue to pray and support you. for the other two lmpd officers who were injured, thank you, and all of your colleagues for your service today and every day. ialso want to thank all of our other first responders, fire, ems, jefferson county sheriff, state and federal agencies that are helping us at this time, and to dr. smith, to you, and all of the other doctors and nurses and team at u of l health for your work today and every day, you

too are saving lives in our city and we thank you for the rest of us in our city, let's hold each other close. and provide comfort where we can. that's what we've done in the past, and that's what we must continue to do now we have already received offers of assistance from people across this city and country. thank you. by the end of the day, we'll be providing specific information on how to provide donations to those impacted today, if you would like we will also have more information by the end of the day about a community-wide vigil for the targeted acts of violence that happened today and any day in our city. we will continue to move forward with strength, with prayer, with love, support, and determination. thank you all. now i'm going to turn it over to

governor andy beshear. governor >> today is a tragic day in louisville and for the entire commonwealth of kentucky acts of violence like this hurt. they tear at the fabric of who we are at our society, at our state, at our country and the city today, i'm hurt. and i'm hurting. and i know so many people out there are as well. we lost four children of god today one of whom was one of my closest friends. tommy elliot helped me build my law career, helped me become governor, gave me advice on being a good dad he's one of the people i talked

to most in the world, and very rarely were we talking about my job. he was an incredible friend. we also lost juliana farmer, tim tutt, josh barrick, each amazing people whose families grieve them, whose communities will mourn and miss them. these are ir replaceable amazing individuals a terrible act of violence we also pray for our lmpd officer and two others that right now while perhaps stable are still fighting for their lives with a need for our care and, yes, for our prayers because i believe -- i believe, and i believe that prayers lift all of us up and those families would appreciate them. and while i hurt today, and while i will grieve when i'm able, i'm also grateful. i'm grateful for an incredibly

quick response from lmpd, the jefferson county sheriff's office, louisville fire and rescue, louisville metro ems, getting to this scene in three minutes. i'm convinced saved other people's lives, and i know saved two other of my friends. one i received incorrect information this morning i thought was gone, and started to mourn. and now i know he's okay, and one i got to see in the er that while it's going to take him a while to heal, it was so good to see my friend, see him there with his wife and know he is still with us. i want to thank ksp, atf, fbi, every single law enforcement agency that's going to bring their entire weight and their entire resources to bear so that we know exactly what happened in this situation and, you know, there are more first responders than the ones

we have listed because the team at u of l hospital are first responders too the first battle was stopping that gunman. the second is doing everything we can to keep those that have been wounded alive, and i want to say to this good doctor behind me, and we have worked together through pandemics and now this, but i'm really proud of what his team is doing. i was in a room where one of those families that are rightfully worried got an update, and it was one that was specific but also provided with c compassion these doctors and nurses are fighting for the lives of our friends, of our family and we are deeply grateful to them i think what we need most right now in a word is love. let me just love love for these families. they are going to need it. i can tell you i've talked to them. i'm very close with one of them. they are going to need that

love, and we need love for each other. it seems like we argue so much in this country. so much anger. i still believe that love and compassion and humanity can lead us to a ebetter place this is hard, it's really hard the day after easter easter is about a rebirth, a better world, one where we're all supposed to work together to get there, one that's supposed to teach us love from a savior that came. we fell in love with him not because of his power but for his compassion, and i believe what we can do, whether it's any faith or just your values is ensure that today more than anything is about these families it's about those families that are afraid they're going to lose their loved one, about those who have been through the worst and while may have survived are going to bear the scars inside and outside, today has got to be

about them and the heroic actions by everybody who responded. and yes, i know in the days to come, we'll talk about issues, but i think the thing that people get wrong after the most difficult of times and days, and as governor i have had to see a lot of them is that today ought to be focused on my friend and everybody else's friends and loved ones that are no longer with us. my faith teach me that while the body is mortal, the soul is eternal, and so i know that i will see tommy again and i know that all of these families and friends in this community, we will be reunited in a better place without violence, without the senselessness and hurt that we feel today we will get through this we'll get through this together. it's the only way. and we'll march forward, and my hope is that in honor of those that have fallen today or that may still fall, we can be

better and we can do better we can care about and love each other just a little bit more today to honor those that have fallen and as so many families grieve, i'm ordering our flags statewide fly at half staff until friday friday evening to make sure that we are paying tribute in every single part of this commonwealth to those that we have lost we are one commonwealth, united with the city, united with these families we've had to do a lot in the last three years is wrap our arms around each other, and we need to do it here thank you. and next we're going to hear from dr. smith who is leading an incredible team, try to make sure as many of those that were harmed in this incident get through it, and let me just

again say that he and his hospital have my full support and confidence i've seen it firsthand what they're doing is nothing short of amazing, and listen, i know they're going to do their best and while we don't know what that outcome can be, we ought to be appreciative of them for doing their very best. >> well, thank you very much for that as was reported this morning university of louisville hospital received nine patients, three of which are currently in critical condition the three that are in critical condition did require operative care and from our trauma team and our emergency department services we were able to release three and three are currently still in our hospital with nonlife threatening injuries i want to say thank you to louisville as a city i want to say thank you to our

police officers and our ems services i have no doubt in my mind that they saved lives today i think they, as many in the health care industry have been through a difficult time recently, but they have stood up and stand up for louisville and the people of louisville constantly they have our thanks i also want to thank my nurses in the emergency department. my physicians in the emergency department through all of this they remained as the professionals as they are they were able to care for a large number of people coming in severely injured in a very short period of time we were able to get them to the services they need and as of now, no one that arrived at the hospital has expired. i do not know what the days ahead will be. i do know that they are still injured but i also know that we are all louisville, it doesn't

matter where we come from, what we look like, we are all part of louisville, lmpd, u of s, louisville health, we are here for everyone i would like to thank everyone who has helped us today, i would like to thank the well wishes i have received personally and from our health care system from around the country support for people who have been through this around the country and know the pain that my team is currently facing, know the pain that the lmpd and ems teams are currently facing and will be with us because as, again, we are all louisvilleians i want to thank everyone for what they do for us every day. we are a wonderful and integral part of this city, and i'm proud to be part of u of l health, and u of l hospital. with that, thank you, and i'll turn it over for questions >> thank you very much, dr. smith.

we're prepared to take a few questions from the media >> obviously everyone who had surgery today is still sedated no one is currently awake. it's very early in the process for the information. really the next 24 hours for all involved in this who required an operation are going to be the critical time period, for us to understand really how well they're going to recover from this acute part of their overall care they've got long roads ahead of them if we can get through 24 hours, then we will take another 24 hours, and we will keep doing that until they get out of the hospital. >> average person gunshot wounds, have any been considered nonlife threatening. >> you can have gunshot wounds that are nonlife threat sentencing. >> is that the case with these three? >> we treated a total of five gunshot wounds today from this

scene. >> the police chief, an officer was shot in the head and then ultimately you hear that for now he is stable, but it appears may make it through this what are your thoughts there >> that is one of the worst moments within any police chief's tenure, being in this position so hear that any of your officers have been injured in any kind of way, but critically injured. it rubs me, and it rocks my world to have anybody being injured and losing their life and so i am just truly -- i have so much respect for the families because they were still present and were very appreciative of what was done and how lmpd responded today. and they were actually embracing me as i was embracing them

but let me say this, the evil that took place today, we shouldn't hear the tears that were coming out from these families and that right there sticks because they are weeping because someone decided to they wanted to take life today and so with that, i'm very grateful and hopeful and i'm thankful to the doctor for stabilizing so many that could have possibly lost their life. >> i don't know where the shooter got the weapon from but i just can say it was a rifle used as i mentioned earlier. >> talk about what happened inside the building. >> repeat that again. >> can you talk more about what happened inside the main building. >> again, this is an ongoing investigation, and again, as like the governor has stated, we want to focus in on the

families we want to focus in right now what happened and as this investigation continues to unfold, then we'll be able to reveal a little bit more >> was he communicating on instagram before this incident >> i will say this, that the suspect was live streaming, and unfortunately that's tragic to know that that incident was out there and captured and so we're hopeful that we can have that incident removed, that footage removed. >> at the home of the shooter in this case, have they discovered anything, man if heifesto >> it's still ongoing, the investigation is unfolding i don't want to get into any additional particulars at this time >> identified and realized who he was, had he had any encounters with the police department >> from my understanding right now preliminarily wise, that may

change, we have not had prior engagement with this individual? he worked at old national bank so i'm assuming right now that he was a citizen of louisville. >> was a search warrant conducted on his home as of today? >> i don't want to get into particulars on that investigation portion of it. again, it's ongoing, i respect your questions. >> [ inaudible ] >> yes and the officers, yes. >> was the suspect shot and killed by police >> yes, sir. >> was there any security? [ inaudible >> i'm not familiar with additional security inside the location, but, again, let's focus back on this initial incident right here that we were responding in a timely, quick

fashion, and we stopped the threat so that no additional loss of life could be taken. >> we will continue to provide updates as we have more information. this has been a very active day where we are, as the governor and chief said, we are using every resource available from local, state and federal agencies to provide all of these answers to the entire community, to the loved ones who lost victims today, and so we are going to get back to work. we will continue to keep you all up to date as we have more information. thank you very much. >> do you all plan on giving updates? >> we will let you know when the next update will be shortly. >> so we got quite a bit of information there from that news conference we did not get what kind of gun. we got rifle, so still waiting on a little more information on what kind of gun the shooter used we do know the names and the ages and a little bit more of the identities of the victims. tommy elliot was 63.

governor andy beshear there teared up, choked up when he was talking about him, said that he helped him become governor, and that he was an incredible friend jim tutt was 64. josh barrick was 40. juliana farmer was 57. there are also nine victims being treated. three are in critical condition. that includes an officer three are in non-critical, and three have been released a little bit more on the officer. his name is nicholas wilt, he's 26 years old, just graduated from the police academy there. the police chief said she literally just swore him in a little bit more than a week ago. on march 31st. his family was in attendance for that he was shot in the head. he's had brain surgery he's out of brain surgery. critical but stable condition. but he's still sedated as are

all of the victims who have so far been in surgery today. as for the shooter, we have a little bit of information on him. his name is connor sturgeon, a 23-year-old white male who was employed by the bank again, the chief said he used a rifle. he used a rifle, unclear what type of rifle. he killed four people, he had a masters in finance from the university of alabama, he had been working at that bank for it appears according to this linked in page that we've seen a year he had interned at the bank for a number of summers. he clearly, if this linked in page is correct, knew the bank pretty well. let's bring in ken dilanian who has been following this with us. ken, a little bit frustrating that we didn't hear more about the gun that was used but still quite a bit of information. >> yeah, i don't understand the

police department's reluctance to say, particularly when we're having a debate about assault weapons in this country, what kind of rifle, but leaving that aside, look, there is no one profile of mass shooters in this country, they come from all different demographics but i have never seen a mass shooter with this particular kind of profile, someone with an advanced degree, a masters in finance from a reputable university, working at a bank. if you look at his linked in profile, he's commenting on the training program that he attended and talking about how wonderful it was and he got to meet all of these great people usually when we're looking at these profiles in the aftermath, distressingly common situations, you see darkness, we hear about social media posts and the police did say he live streamed this incident on instagram, which we should take a pause on that about how shocking that is, and horrific but when you look at the appearance of the life he was

leading, it's just so anomalous and bears more investigation about what exactly was happening with this person that led to this outcome. >> it makes you ask the question, if you can't do better background checks or aren't red flags, there aren't any signs. we don't know this individual personally, so it's unclear if there were any signs, but with that background, you said it's unusual. i mean, how much is any of that going to do, and on that note, ken, i want to bring in former ohio governor and nbc news political analyst john kasich. i have this question for you i found it surprising. i watched that news conference the one thing i didn't hear, we heard about the victims, the shooter, how everyone is thinking about the victims and how this was an evil that was done to them, and how unfair it is, yes, what i didn't hear anything there was about how to stop it from happening i didn't hear anything about

trying to keep guns out of the hands of people who want to kill other people >> i think, katy, i thought governor beshear did an amazing job, and he really showed his face in an effort to try to not give hope and put things somewhat in perspective about the life to come in fact, i texted his father saying that he had done a really great job. but he did say that he didn't want to get into the policies today, which is probably appropriate. you know, i think you're going to hear more from him and you're going to hear more from people all over this country about things like red flag laws, as your guest just said, it doesn't look like the profile added up to this. but we don't know, and one of the things about the red flag law is it allows people that notice something that's unusual to be able to go to authorities, go to court and try to take guns

out of their hands from people that they deem as unstable there's a due process, a quick one, but there's a way to do that and of course this will all bring up the issue of a waiting period, background checks, all of those kinds of things in this case, which sort of looks preliminarily like something snapped in this guy and maybe he was harboring something. at the same time, the red flag law is so important, and if it had been in effect in states all across this country, a real red flag law, there were a number of incidents that i think could have been resolved, and instead we're left with tragedy. i think you'll see governor beshear come back and talk about what he can get done the question is do you have a legislature that is willing to take some steps forward and, you know, what we just saw in tennessee with children showing up, students showing up, it really lifted me, katy, because at the end of the day, if we're

going to do something about guns, people are going to have to march the same way they did to end the vietnam war and to be able to bring about civil rights laws if people don't get out there into the streets and march, i'm afraid we're going to keep seeing this. >> can you explain to me the reluctance on the part of republicans, it seems broadly across this country to do anything when it comes to gun -- i'm not talking about gun restriction, gun reform, to make it harder to get a gun, to make it harder to keep a gun if you have problems just looking at the law in kentucky, i want to remind our viewers, and i'll tell you as well, in case you missed the top of the show, according to the gifford law center, kentucky allows anyone 21 or older who's legally authorized to purchase a firearm can carry it concealed in public there are no mandated state waiting periods or background checks kentucky in 2020 had the 13th highest gun death rate in the country. i mean, there's no red flag law

there. it was already a problem, clearly. what is the reluctance to say, hey, listen, we understand the second amendment is sacrosanct, but there should be some reasonable restrictions. i know that i'm going to go out today after this show and there is a chance that i could get run over by a car. i understand i take that risk every single day, just the risk of a random accident, but there are rules governing how cars can operate on the roads and in cities there are stoplights there are stop signs, there are kr crosswalks they are to go in the road and not the sidewalk there are rules making me safer as i walk down the street. in so many places across the country, there are absolutely no rules beyond a 21 age limit for guns how is that? >> katy, and look, we can talk about the nra, but it's the people out there in the districts that tell legislatures, oh, no, no, this

is a slippery slope if you do something. to me, a legislator now, a conservative republican legislator, i believe can go forward and say, look, there are reasonable things we can do. as governor, i can't tell you how frustrated i was by the fact that i couldn't get more done when i was there i could tell you what would move them if all of a sudden there were on a consistent basis, 5,000, 10,000 people on the lawns of the state house, those politicians would shrivel up they would live in fear of the fact they might lose their jobs, and some places you have seen reforms happen after tragedies like this, all too often it doesn't happen katy, again, it's in our hands you know, i would love to be able to be part of a million person march to d.c., to washington, d.c. to the lincoln memorial, to say enough is enough already you know, that's what i think has to happen.

>> i understand that i want to ask one other question on it, and i agree it's about the voters putting pressure on lawmakers. so many of these districts have been gerrymandered to make it virtually impossible for somebody who's not on the extremes, is that something that needs to be addressed? and the supreme court has basically said they're not going to touch that, so where are we >> of course gerrymandering is ridiculous, and i'll tell you, what you're going to see in wisconsin with the change in the court is they're going to eliminate a lot of that gerrymandered districts, and we tried to do it in ohio we didn't go far enough on it, apparently, i believe completely in the issue of eliminating the gerrymandering where you carve out state districts people on both sides, both republicans and democrats, and it is that gerrymandering that, you know, that can lock people in or you don't have to pay attention to voters of the other party. there's one other thing, as you do this newscast, and we talk about the loss of life, every

legislature has to ask themselves what are they doing to make this country a better place? i mean, is it worth getting reelected if you cannot do the things that you think you need to do to bring about a safer, stronger america so, you know, that's what breaks all of our hearts. and, you know, it's essential for everybody no matter where you work, no matter what you're doing, to realize there are principles that go way beyond your own, you know, safety in your job or whatever, and so, katy, let's march. i'll march with you. i'll go with you >> i'll just add this final thought, gun deaths are soaring across the country, especially among children, and we have already said that, you know, this is a separate mass shooting, but, you know, they're all tied together. guns are the leading cause of death for kids, and now the cdc says that one in 25 american kindergartners won't make it to their 40th birthday.

says a lot governor john kasich, thank you very much, i appreciate it >> thanks. we have breaking news out of virginia about guns. we're learning that a grand jury has indicted the mother of a richneck elementary student who shot his teacher in january. joining me is washington correspondent, yamiche alcindor, tell me what the news is >> this is breaking news, we know now that a grand jury has indicted the mother of that 6-year-old who shot his teacher, an elementary school student, shot his teacher in january. that teacher's name is abigail zwerner. the new port news is saying the mother, daija taylor is being charged with felony child neglect and leaving a firearm to endanger a child the commonwealth attorney is another way to describe the person in the role they were saying they were not going to charge the student but of course we have reports from the teacher who said the school officials had been warned

multiple times on the day before she was shot that this student had a gun. there was also reporting that abigail zwerner was texting people, worried this student was going to shoot her, moments before she was shot. from our understanding, she has a bullet lodged in her body. she had an interview with savannah guthrie, where she talked about the ongoing trauma here so this is a big development in this case. i want to read a bit more of what the commonwealth attorney is saying about this he's saying if the special grand jury determines that additional persons are criminally responsible under the law, it can return additional indictments. that's of course related to the fact that he is also saying he's petitioning a circuit court to impanel a special grand jury to continue the investigation so while this mother is the first person being charged here with this commonwealth attorney saying other people could be charged. this is a heartbreaking case, when you think of a 6-year-old, a child, shooting their teacher and there was a lot of people calling for accountability in this case, and now today we have themother of that child being

held accountable by a grand jury. >> we'll see if any of those others happen to be the administrators at the school the mother of the child who shot his teacher has been charged with child neglect yamiche alcindor, thank you very much and we are going to be back in 60 seconds with brooeaking news from the department of justice what the government is doing to stop a texas judge from outlawing the abortion pill. and what pfizer is doingo tget involved oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. y'all wayfair's got just what you need for your home. do they have stylish beds at great prices? booking. whoo, this bed is dreamy. you're kelly clarkson? yes. and you're in our bed? yes. what about five star dining sets? sorry i didn't have a reservation. you're kelly clarkson.

i love your work. thank you. find just what you need at wayfair! even a personal sauna. oh! can we do the wayfair song? yes you can. wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ wow. it'd be better if you did it. want luxury hair repair that doesn't cost $50? pantene's pro-vitamin formula repairs hair. as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. ignore the fourth ruling by the fda? >> the president and the administration made clear we have a strong case the fda has followed all the rules and used the evidence to make a decision. we feel confident that we'll prevail in court this one judge in one court in

one state should not have the ability to undermine safe and effective med seasons that millions of american rely on >> we have breaking news out of washington, d.c. health and human services secretary told reporters the biden administration will not ignore the texas court that ruled the anti-abortion pill was illegal and now the administration is doing that, asking for an administrative stay on the texas order. joining me now is laura gerard this is confusing. what's going on? >> we have a filing from the justice department, also from the pill manufacturer. they're asking the court of appeals to press pause because the texas order is set to go into effect midnight saturday. they're saying let's hold ball on everything and let the

parties brief in front of the fifth circuit. that's what they're asking for, an administrative stay they're asking for a longer stay to have everything put up on hold while the case goes up on appeal they're saying let's slow things down get rid of that saturday deadline and let everyone hash it out we'll see what the fifth circuit does they may do this fairly soon if they issue that stay, that doesn't mean they'll rule in the justice department's favor it just means there's enough at stake here >> is this separate than what the doj in washington is asking the judge there to clarify the ruling that said the fda should maintain status quo? >> yes you have these conflicting rulings. the justice department is saying, judge, please understand we have conflicting rulings. you ruled 20 minutes apart

unclear if you knew that was happening at the time you issued your order that we have a conflicting guy in texas doing something. we'll see what the judge in washington state has to say. the judge might say my order is just as valid as the guy in texas and you have to comply this is why this is headed for the supreme court. >> you have two states with two separate rulings >> exactly the washington case is a little bit of a wrinkle that one is only involving 18 democratic states, ags who sued in that case >> this is going to the supreme court. can we make an assumption on how the justices might rule? is this similar enough to the ruling on roe v. wade? >> arguably it's not similar at all. what the judge in texas has done is extraordinary, by any

objective measure by what he's done is extraordinary. >> i think people would say it's extraordinary they overturned roe v. wade too. >> yes, but he's said the fda doesn't have the authority to approve a drug that's been on the market for 23 years in which case the fda doesn't have the authority to approve a litany of drugs. anyone could decide to sue in any case, apart from abortion. obviously we'll see what the supreme court does if it gets that far -- it may not get that far if they get a stay in the fifth circuit, maybe the justice department doesn't have to the supreme court in overturning roe kicked it back to the states and said let's let the states decide what to do. i think they'll call to question about whether they meant what they said. >> we'll see it has a lot of political ramifications. we can look at what happened in

wisconsin with the supreme court victory there for the democrats. laura, thank you appreciate that. joining me now is uc davis law school professor and author mary ziegler talk to me about the news coming out today and what your expectation is >> i think we're in unprecedented territory. in some ways the suit was tailor made for the supreme court on the other hand there are a lot of problems with the plaintiffs' case, starting with the fact that they don't have standing, carrying through to they're relying on evidence that the fda rejected years ago it's a sense of whether there are any boundaries with the supreme court when it comes to challenges to abortion law we'll see the answer to that sooner rather than later

>> on the issue of standing, is there a way for another case like this to be brought that doesn't have that -- what would seem to be a glaring problem at the center of it >> i think one of the problems is that the plaintiffs ideally would need someone who had an issue with the drug. whether these plaintiffs exist is anybody's guess we'll continue to see cases like this one way or another. >> what about the pharmaceutical company getting involved in this pfizer filed a letter saying this ruling endangers drug

development and patient health how does the drug industry getting involved affect this >> they're trying to put their thumb on the scale to let the supreme court know that other major stake holders in our health care system have a problem with what's going on here of course, it would set a precedent to challenge anything coming from the fda, even if there's no real evidence i don't know if the u.s. supreme court is going to be paying attention to the pharmaceutical industry, but you're seeing the pharmaceutical industry raising the alarm that it's going to be a concern that would have ripple effects across the industry and not just in the abortion aspect. so mifepristone is used with other pills. the ruling ask that the fda didn't go through the testing to make sure it's safe. it's been on the market for 23 years.

it has fewer side effects than most medications out there, viagra for instance. if you take it off the market, what sort of risk are patients and women who use that one drug if they're trying to get a medicated abortion >> so the mifepristone -- the misopostol is not as effective as compared to the two combined. there's a subset of patients who will need follow-up care to make sure an abortion is complete so they don't have sepsis and other complications. that's one concern another concern is that some of the logic of the judge's opinion would apply to misopostol too. i wouldn't be surprised to see them back in court saying if that's what you mean, misopostol

is illegal, right? we'll see challenges to other abortion drugs, not just mifepristone >> we'll see how quickly the ruling or the fifth circuit weighs in. we'll see how quickly the supreme court decides to weigh in, how quickly it gets to a motion to go to the supreme court and what happens then. seems like we have a lot coming when it comes to this conversation >> that's an understatement. >> mary ziegler, thank you for coming on the show and helping us understand. that is going to do it for me today on a day full of tragic and depressing breaking news "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪ ♪ hi, everyone it's 4:00 in the new york. when the united states supreme court took the monumental step in jun